This might be mildly NSFW.
Today we’re going to look at how women are depicted graphically in fantasy roleplaying games (as distinct from sexism or misogyny).
Let’s start with some basic assumptions.
- It would be nice to have more women playing D&D. The surveys, which you can still take, suggest that women make up only about 15-20% of the player base (though, to be fair, that’s an average of about one woman per 5-person group). Having so few women changes the flavor of the game.
- Unrealistic and hypersexual female models make many women feel uncomfortable. More on this below.
- The way women (of all species within the game) are portrayed has an effect on how people approach the game and how they view the female players. You see this most often in the form of transferred misogyny. When someone starts with the idea that “it’s just a game, so the normal rules don’t apply”, unacceptable behavior starts to creep into the out-of-game experience.
How the world sees women
Okay, guys, do me a favor and follow this link or this link. What you’re looking at is the general consensus for “plus-sized”. That’s right, the world considers these women fat. Let’s take a look at some of them that stand out:
To me, both of those women look healthy (Well, the one in the middle could do with a little less zombie makeup, but that’s a personal preference). I find this next picture fascinating:
This is a women’s magazine. According to the industry, the woman in the middle is a “traditional” model, while the one on the right is a “bustier, more athletic” model who has appeared in the swimsuit editions of Sport’s Illustrated. The woman on the left? She’s so “fat” that she’s barely employable as a model (I’m not kidding). Oh, and that little teaser up in the upper right hand corner – “Size 2, Size 12… Whatever!” You should know that the average American woman is between a size 11 and 14.
Yes, the woman on the right has a little bit of a tummy, but look at this picture of her by herself:
Now go back to the picture of the two models together. Katya Zharkova, the model on the right, is 5’10″ and about 135-145 pounds. Except for being a bit tall, she’s actually average. The other model in the picture essentially has the build and bust of an adolescent.
Women are constantly being told that their bodies are wrong and that they aren’t sexy in the right way, sometimes in very subtle ways.*
How D&D presents women
Now, you might be asking, “Isn’t this a D&D blog? I get that girls are bombarded with images telling them that they need to be impossibly thin, but what does this have to do with roleplaying?” Well, one of the primary aspects of roleplaying is projection onto the character. When people build characters, they generally make them with most of the qualities they like about themselves, then add a couple of qualities they wish they had. If you watch your players closely enough, their characters will tell you a lot about the person they wish that they could be.
Now, when a woman turns to D&D to create her idealized self, what does she see? Sadly, the imagery is actually worse than that found in modeling. For one thing, take a look at Jim Hines trying to assume poses from fantasy covers. Yikes. Whereas there’s a limit to what Photoshop can do, fantasy art knows no such restriction. Google Images can barf up some weird things, but “fantasy women” shows us a fairly clear standard:
- No more than about 130 pounds, often much less.
- Gravity-defying C or D-cup breasts.
- Narrow hips (an oddity given the curves required for that bosom).
- No upper body strength to speak of.
- A perfectly flat, but not muscular, midriff.
Note how, in the picture below – which is about as good as a fantasy picture is going to get – even the Half-Orc and the Dwarf are not permitted to be stocky (the Half-Orc is done in a very She-Hulk, “I’m just a very tall supermodel” style, though at least she doesn’t have the pipestem arms).
If you want to do some extra research, I suggest Google Image searches for “D&D women” and “D&D fighter”. You should also read this article which examines the poses by gender for 4e and a bunch of MMOs.
The thing is, if a female gamer wants to look like that fantasy, she has to change herself. No amount of situps is going to give you cleavage. A male gamer, by contrast, generally only needs to improve himself. That’s a huge distinction. If you ask a woman how she would become that idealized self, it’s likely she doesn’t have a clue. For almost every woman, that dream will never be within reach. Ask a guy the same question and he need only point you to the original Conan the Barbarian. Even if he never musters up the willpower, the road is all laid out for him. It feels possible, if not probable.
Actually, think about Conan for a minute and what his life is like outside of fighting. He gets to drink and eat what he wants (as an aside, he gets to be a giant man-whore, to boot). Do you think the same could be said of the female fantasy character? If you want an excellent example of this, go look through Shelly Mazzanoble’s columns with an eye towards what she says about food and appearance (I’m not going to discuss Mazzanoble’s dreadful effect on women’s perspectives on D&D, that job was masterfully done here. If you want to take a break from reading this and read through that entire blog like I did, I won’t mind.).
At the end of the day, roleplaying is supposed to be a refuge from feeling bad about yourself.
To get back to the point, your character is your avatar and how you feel about that avatar has a profound effect on how you approach the game. If I were the art director for D&DNext, these are the guidelines I would establish:
- Yes, boobs are cool, but no more cleavage shots. They’re gratuitous and awful.
- Speaking of breasts, a little variance might be nice. We get that you’re trying to make it easy to visually distinguish that the character is female, but maybe you could use cues other than a big ‘ol rack? (Yes, I’m using the vulgar term there. The way breasts are depicted in fantasy art pisses me off.)
- DO NOT SEND IN A PICTURE OF A WOMAN IN A POSTURE THAT YOU YOURSELF CANNOT COMFORTABLY ASSUME.
- We want pictures of women doing exciting things. Standing around looking at a glowing spell is not exciting. Also, try to have the women’s level of violence equal that of the men. If the scene is about a bloody fight, there’s nothing wrong with depicting a woman about to gut her enemy.
- Pay attention to the visible BMI. No images of women (as distinct from children) with a BMI of less than 20 will be accepted. Also, preference will be given to depictions that show realistic upper arms and thighs.
- Stop baring midriffs. If a woman is wearing armor, that armor should cover exactly the same things it would on a man.
- In fact, just stop putting women in gear that would be completely ineffective. If any sort of double-sided tape would be required, don’t even bother.
- Put pants on the female figures. Stripper boots do not count.
- Women need to be portrayed in active roles, rather than just standing around.
- It’s okay for a woman to have scars, missing limbs and blemishes. It’s also okay for them to be old and have a BMI > 25.
- “Sexy healer” and “sexy spellcaster” are sometimes foods. Actually, they’re that plate laden with bacon grease and chicken gravy that no one should ever eat. We can also never do “sexy archer” ever again.
- It’s okay for women to be winning a fight. Really, it is.
- It’s also okay for them to be doing something other than defending, running or screaming.
- When a woman is wielding a sword (and it’s more than okay to depict her doing so), at least pretend to give her the upper-body strength required.
- Save the bikinis for the beach.
What would your art rules be?
* – If you don’t believe me, go back and look at the two pictures of Zharkova. In the first, they have gone to some lengths to make her more butch than the “normal” model. To begin with, the other model’s head is inclined in a submissive posture. The other model is also visibly shorter, when Zharkova (at 5’10) is about average for professional models. Zharkova’s hand is on the other model’s buttocks and she has a wistful, dreamy look on her face (in a creepy way, they almost suggest that Zharkova is molesting a child). Zharkova is not wearing makeup. This is yet another “this is how big women are” statement, which is to say that they’re probably lesbians.
The second picture is actually worse. Putting aside the uncomfortable heels, when Zharkova has to be sexy on her own, they put her in an extremely submissive and highly uncomfortable posture. It almost screams “I pretend that I don’t care that I’m a fatty, but I’ll do whatever it takes to make you like me!” a.k.a. “You can mount me if you like!” They add bright lipstick so that you know she’s aroused, then they give her more gaudy rings. The overall impression is definitely not one of empowerment.
Oh, and as a “reward” for having stuck with me this far…













While I run the risk of flames by merely commenting on this post, I want to applaud you for what you’ve said here, mostly. While I am personally a fan of women who have ‘a little more to them’, I don’t think that skinnier figures should be frowned upon either. In the same way some people cannot help their ‘larger’ figures, some also can’t help being tinier than most.
Extremely disproportionate/unrealistic body shapes though definitely as well as over-sexed, half naked, bikini armor bullshit. Also, pictures of women always taking the rear, needing help, or doing mundane crap is also stupid.
Any way thanks for being brave enough to write posts like this, I sure as hell wouldn’t touch the topic with a ten foot pole. I’ve gotta say though the “reward” at the bottom was more nightmare fodder than anything
.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I have a fair bit of respect for your work, even though you and I don’t always see eye-to-eye.
That said, I think that people are all to often looking for an excuse to include a “realistic” skinny woman. Yes, there are skinny women and, yes, some of them could participate in the activities we would associate with fantasy adventuring, but they should be the exception, not the rule. I would be perfectly happy with a little “reverse discrimination” where the art skews the other way for a while, if for no other reason than to promote some awareness on this topic, both at and away from the table.
As for the flame wars, I encourage people to try. Just know that I have advanced degrees in sarcasm and profane mockery.
(And, yeah, that picture squicked me out too)
I know this is from a while back, but I wanted to say this. While I agree that this is a serious issue and know you meant well, the policing of women’s bodies in general is a serious issue, and that includes smaller women as well as larger ones. All women in our society receive crap about their bodies, and “you look like an adolescent” or “oh my gosh, you are WAY too skinny!” or “you must be anorexic” hurt a lot if that’s your natural body type. I have known girls like this, and since I’ve lost weight, purely by eating better, I get far more discouraging criticism about my body than when I weighed about the same as Katya Zharkova except _8 inches shorter_ and with no muscle whatsoever. The ideal would be to have as many body types represented as fairly as possible without shaming any of them.
Go back to the 50′s and 60′s. I see this meme all the time: pictures of models from that time, who tended to weigh more, along with tons of advertisements from the era encouraging women to use their products to put on weight NOW! People will like you if you put on weight! You don’t have any friends because you’re so skinny! Etc., etc., etc. And you had people going “Yeah, this is how it should be!” But all I can see is the exact same thing we’ve got today: we were always policing women’s bodies. We were always trying to uphold a little box of perfect that, realistically, so many people are going to fall short of. The ads were every bit as hurtful and harsh as the diet ads you see today.
BMI is also not a very reliable measure. For more info, please read: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106268439
Personally, my BMI is deceptively small (as in, I sometimes can’t wear clothes made for “average” people because I’m too large, yet my BMI places me as nearly underweight!). Then there are people who weigh more due to muscle, so their BMI calls them “overweight,” but they look much smaller.
Overall, I’d say I agree with your post and am glad people are thinking about this and taking steps in the right direct, but sometimes the tone made me wrinkle my nose a bit because of the above issues. If it weren’t clear, I’m a woman, so this stuff is important to me.
I think my tone is always going to come across as wrong for this type of discussion because, well, I’m a guy. My prose reflects that in a way that can’t be changed. Despite the fact that I was raised in a feminist environment and my attempts to avoid as many of the patriarchal traps as I can, I still am subject to a certain amount of bias because I am what I am. I can work to minimize the hurtfulness and callousness of my behavior, but I don’t think there’s a way to eradicate my predilections,at least without amputating a large portion of my passion, imagination and creativity.
There are several reasons why I am inclined towards heavier women and tend to be more concerned about the societal pressures to be thin than many other feminist topics. To begin with, I’m round-ish myself, descended from Russian stock. I’m of an age where very little of my identity is derived from my appearance or whether or not the average woman finds me attractive. All of us will end up a little saggy and pudgy over our lifetimes because of something that has been referred to unkindly as “millennial sag.” It is, at least in my impression, a natural byproduct of time.
No, what truly tears at my heart strings is pushing women to be something that is at odds with biology and, through the miracle of Photoshop, may not be real at all. While I am generically disturbed by society’s tendency to police women’s bodies, there’s something about the impossible idolatry of the zaftig that makes my heart ache. One picks one’s battles in life and this is one I find myself called to fight. That doesn’t mean that I am ignorant of accepting of all the other ways a person’s identity and self-esteem can become corroded, nor does it mean that I am unaware that there are perfectly happy and healthy women with a low BMI.
That said, I wasn’t aware of the weaknesses of BMI. It seemed like a convenient shorthand for the things that I wanted to express. When I use words like “zaftig” and “Rubinesque”, people tend to look at me funny. Hell, neither of those words are in FireFox’s built-in spell check. If you know of better terminology for these concepts – or for more appropriate concepts, if you know of them – please, feel free to help me become a better person (and, no, I don’t mean that sarcastically).
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Here’s a couple of links that are related to the topic.
http://womenfighters.tumblr.com/
http://madartlab.com/2011/12/14/fantasy-armor-and-lady-bits/
This is a big issue. I know that some of my Facebook friends who are Female Gamers have protested and stopped playing certain video games based on the stereotypes of women within those games. It’s something that WotC and other fantasy game companies should really consider.
Reblogged this on WRECK MARKER and commented:
The issue of women and the image portrayed in fantasy games is on the rise, boys and girls. Read more here.
Replying here because the “reply” button is not showing up on your post. P: And this got a bit longer than expected, so forgive me. This is something I do care a lot about, and I can tell that you care too, so I didn’t want to skimp on anything here.
I do understand that. For the record, I would say that, on a general level, the pressure on heavier women is greater, and the pressure on older women is greater as well. Fat-shaming and cultural obsession with youth (particularly for women, who are culturally infantilized) are both big deals. To be clear, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with limiting your discussion to solely one such issue.
It’s just that even to smaller women, the message that “Your body is wrong! Fix it!” can still be extremely virulent and extremely commonplace. I think, if you’re going to engage in this discussion, it’s best not to stick a number on it (as with the BMI) and say, “If it’s not THIS standard, it doesn’t make the cut.” That’s still excluding women, and bodies are simply not given to that kind of generalization. This is not so much a matter of making sure thin women have someone to relate to — because you can just look at Hollywood and fashion magazines and there you are — but one of not quantifying what’s “good” and “bad” when it comes to our bodies. What’s good is being healthy, which is not antithetical to being smaller _or_ to being larger. Binary oppositions (two things are necessarily opposed, one sort is good, the other sort is bad) are harmful. Concepts like “real women have curves” (or anything following the pattern “real women [something or other]“) are also inherently damaging because all women are real women, and upholding one body type as “real” implies that others must be “fake.” Not that you invoked the “real women” concepts; it just seems like something that makes sense to bring up while I’m talking about oppositions and what not to go for.
It’s one thing to encourage accepting our bodies for what they are, to criticize thought and media which uphold “skinny as possible” as the must-have figure and exclude the many who don’t have it, and to discourage unhealthy behavior in pursuit of a tiny figure. It’s another thing to discourage and exclude a smaller body type *itself* because you are going to hurt women that way. Do you get my gist here?
Comparing fully-grown *women* to adolescents simply because they’re thin is one thing that irked me in specific. They don’t have the bust and build of an adolescent, they have the bust and build of the women that they are. Again, infantilization is already something we have to struggle with.
On the other hand, it’s obvious that there is really only one female body type being represented in conventional fantasy material, and it ain’t larger ladies. This is definitely something to rail against! I’m not really sure of something you can use in place of BMI here. Any alternatives to BMI (as BMI itself in medical practice, from what I understand) are geared toward determining a person’s body fat content in order to determine the risk of heart disease, not concerning body type at all. I would just ditch that concept entirely myself due to the issues with it. Bodies really are extremely variable.
See, this is one of my favorite sites:
http://www.cockeyed.com/photos/bodies/heightweight.html
This is a pretty small sampling, so I’m sure there’d be even greater variation if it were larger, but in cases where there are people at the same height and weight (particularly people of the same gender), you can often see some definite variation. I’ve also seen pics before with, say, 5 women at the same height and weight who definitely did not look it. There are so many other factors at play — muscle level, age, fat and muscle distribution, hormone levels, etc. — that I don’t think any kind of chart or formula can really convey body types properly.
As for what I’d encourage instead… hmm. I think you’re on the right track with your list other than the BMI thing. Rather than that, I’d say this: make sure women markedly larger than your average movie star are well-represented. If everyone looks like Megan Fox in Transformers, you are definitely missing the mark. Make sure proportions check out. Make sure varying degrees of fat and muscle are depicted (this includes the breasts bit).
It’s not letting you reply where you want because it prevents too much nesting. If it didn’t, the indentation would cause problems.
I think you’re missing my point somewhat. I am vehemently opposed to shaming of all sorts, but more so when it comes to women’s issues because, sadly, the denigration of women is more tolerated in our society. Don’t get me wrong, I get all twitchy about the gross mischaracterization of male culture, but given that men hold a dominant position in our society, it calls to me less as something that needs my attention. I feel the same way about anti-intellectualism.
The thing is, when you’re talking about art guidelines, you have to have a template system so that you can say, “I don’t want this, this or this. I would be more likely to accept *that*.” Again, I used BMI as the system I was most familiar with. In the future, I will put more effort into researching other systems.
Huh? Now I’m pretty confused. I didn’t bring up men’s issues at all. Some of the things I talked about affect men to some extent too, but as you’ve noted, they affect women much more strongly, and how they affect women is pretty much all I was discussing. Trust me, I know all about the denigration of women, experiencing it every day.
I don’t really know what to recommend. You really won’t find any alternatives to BMI that aren’t very inappropriate to your goals (they’re things like waist-to-hip ratio and caliper-measured body fat levels, as indicator of obesity-related health risks) because BMI wasn’t designed for this kind of thing anyway. I suppose the pictures on that chart could be valuable even if the numbers are basically a load of crap.